Issue 21: The Sandman Book Club (Part 4)

Things are starting to come to a head in our penultimate episode for The Sandman Book Club! Brief Lives follows the story of Dream and Delirium as they search the world for Destruction, their missing brother. Meanwhile, the next volume (The World's End) brings us another anthology with hints at what to expect in the final two volumes of the series. 

Jessika: I feel like I'm very straight passing recently. So I went out and ordered by self some doc Martins, just work there. These are my doc Martins. I am bisexual. *laughs* 

Hello! Welcome to Ten Cent Takes, the podcast where we seek to find Destruction one issue at a time. My name is Jessika Frasier, and I'm joined by my cohost, the fountain of facts, Mike Thompson. 

Mike: Hello. Hello. Hello.

Jessika: Hello, Mike. And if you, listener, are new around here, the purpose of this podcast is to study comic books in ways that are both fun and informative. We want to look at their coolest, weirdest and silliest moments, as well as examine how they're woven into the larger fabric of pop culture and history. 

This episode, we're continuing on with the fourth episode of our book club as we discuss volume seven and eight of the Sandman series, if you haven't already listened to our previous episodes on the Sandman and want to catch up, which by the way, we highly recommend we're discussing two volumes at a time.

So go check out episode 15 for volumes one and two episode 17 for volumes three and four, and episode 19 for volumes five and a six, 

And if you're thinking "These guys are great. I would love to show my support for this amazing podcast, but how?" Well friends I'll tell you. It really helps us. If you rate and review us on the platform you're listening through, especially apple pod pass and pod chaser, it really helps with discoverability and in helping us reach other nerdlings that just might enjoy the show.

Plus it gives us that validation boost that Mike and I both being generally anxious, so need. So show us some love wherever you listen, please. And thank you. You can also tell your friends how awesome we are so they can join in on this fun. 

Mike: Yeah. Uh, I definitely thrive on words of affirmation as pointed out by Comic Book Couples Counseling in our last episode.

Jessika: Yes, please give us all the affirmation. But before we jump into our main conversation about volume seven and eight of the same. what is one cool thing you've read or watched lately? 

Mike: I recently learned that the Books of Magic, which is a bit of a spin-off to the Sandman and a bit of sequel and a bit of something totally original, is getting the omnibus treatment. So this was actually really exciting for me because I read all the trades when I was in high school and college. And I was disappointed at how it felt like the series ended halfway through the story.

And then I learned way later that DC only collected the first 50 of like 75 total issues into trades, which is why the series felt like it ended the way it did, I guess. Didn't sell that well. And so DC stopped putting them out, but DC put out an omnibus late last year, and then they're going to release another one in a couple of months.

And it's going to contain the rest of the series as well as all of the different tie in books. And I wound up getting it for over half off from Target during this big deal they had on books where it was like, buy two, get one free. And they also weirdly had it for over half off. So yeah, I snapped that fucker up.

Jessika: Hey hey tar-get. 

Mike: I know. Right. It was great. but yeah, we've been having a lot of rainstorms here in the bay area lately, and it's kind of the perfect weather to read an oversized book, featuring the adventures of Tim hunter, who is this British teenager who's due to become the most powerful magician in the current age of man and...It's a really good read still. It's one of those books from the nineties that was originally a mini series by Neil Gaiman, and then other authors picked it up and put their own spin on it, you know? And we saw that with Lucifer as well. the books of magic had a couple of different authors, but they had prolonged runs and then they had a rotating cast of artists meanwhile Lucifer had Mike Carey at the helm guiding everything for all 75 issues.

And then Neil Gaiman wrote the original miniseries for the books of magic, but then, you can still feel his fingerprints all over it, which is really cool.

Jessika: Yeah, that's neat. 

Mike: Yeah. There's some cool little Easter eggs in it. Like I think I mentioned in last episode during the brain wrinkles about how we actually see Hamnet, who was in the Midsummer Night's Dream issue of Sandman show up in the Books of Magic as the page of Titania, the queen of fairies.

Jessika: Yeah, totally validated me. 

Mike: I remember, you and I talking about that and you were like, I don't know. Did he go with Titania? And I was sitting there going, I don't know, maybe . , you know, he could have it's left open-ended no, he went with Titania, so...

Jessika: yeah. 

Mike: yeah.

Jessika: that. 

Mike: But yeah. What about you?

What have you been scoping out?

Jessika: Well, my good friend and a listener Noel -hey- gave me a reprint of a one-shot Image comic called Aria: The Heavenly Creatures, which was written by  Brian Holguin, illustrated by Jay Anacleto with Brian Haberlin, colored by Drew Passata Raymond Lee and Brian Haeberlin and letter by Francis Taka Naga.

And I, I wanted to call them all out because the illustration, this comic is absolutely phenomenal. It's gorgeous. It's just, it's a veritable work Bart on every page and it's done in a really soft and hazy almost Dreamlike way. 

Mike: Hm.

Jessika: And there aren't any harsh outlines it's detailed and very lifelike and all of the fabric just looks so like rich and realistic.

Noel was telling me that the character Lady Kildare was actually in another longstanding series, but this one had the rights removed to use the character. I believe, I'm not sure why. but it was set in the smokestack that was Victorian London. Hence some of the reasons for the haze, the story follows Kildare, who is from the fairy realm as she stumbles upon and subsequently sets to saving a fallen angel who was being held active by a man who runs a sideshow. 

And it gives off extreme queer vibes and has an absolutely strong, and bad-ass leading lady, which, you know, I'm absolutely here for.

Mike: What. 

Jessika: yeah. what? Who's heard of this? 

Mike: nobody told me this.

Jessika: what she's a feminist who would have known. 

Mike: I can't believe you're telling me this now. It's like 20 episodes. We're all alive.

Jessika: This is 21. I got ya. 

Mike: I'm quitting! I'm quitting right now! How dare you?

Jessika: You know what, Mike? Let's move on to our next topic. Our main topic. 

Mike: that series does sound rad though. I haven't heard of it before, so I'm gonna have to check it out.

Jessika: Yeah, you should. It's definitely, it's very interest. 

Mike: All right. Now we can move on.

Jessika: Okay, let's go. Oh, right. So we are moving on to volume seven and eight of the Sandman series. So volume seven is titled Brief Lives and was published 1992 and 93 and comprises volumes 41, through 49 of the Sandman series written of course, by Neil Gaiman and illustrated by Jill Thompson and Vince Locke.

Mike: Yeah. And we've seen both of these artists before in the series, like Vince Locke helps with, the short story about the Wolf people. 

Jessika: That's right. 

Mike: and then Jill Thompson, Jill Thompson did the, the Chibi story that we saw 

Jessika: Oh, that's right. 

Mike: in the parliament of Rooks issue. Her chili style drawings of Death and Dream wound up becoming their own thing. It's called the Little Endless 

Jessika: Aw. 

Mike: and they did them as kind of like storybooks.

Jessika: That's so cute. 

Mike: Yeah. 

Jessika: Oh, obviously I'm going to have to go down a Jill Thompson rabbit hole. 

This volume in particular is chunked into chapters.

So I'm going to break down the story in that way. 

so we begin chapter one with an older man making a long arduous Trek to put flowers on a Memorial for Johannah Constantine. We find Orpheus living his endless life of being just a head, not ahead of the game, Just, a literal head. He's been there. for so long that he uses his current helper for the helper's grandfather, as the task of Orpheus's care has been passed down the familial line. We cut to Delirium who is lost on and living on the streets because she cannot find her realm and is obsessively talking about her quote unquote lost brother.

She has what can probably be best described as an anxiety or panic attack after wandering into a club and mistaking a cute goth woman for being her sister, Death. Desire, swoops in and takes her to her realm, but refuses to help her in the search for their brother, but suggests that Delirium visit Despair in her realm And ask if she will help. Despair also refuses to assist, but we get a glance into the brother whose identity has been kept vague up to this point, which is Destruction. We get to see a brief interaction during the black plague where Despair and Destruction for both out admiring their work. Despair then ignores a mirror page, quote, unquote from her twin Desire who wanted to talk about her and their brother and the fact that Delirium is looking for him.

Mike: Yeah. And I think this is the first time that we actually see Destruction as a person. Before that he showed up in the issue where we saw Orpheus his wedding, but he was like fully clad in armor and he had like a giant helm. So it was obscuring his face.

Jessika: Yeah. And we didn't ever really get introduced necessarily. We just knew that he just was like, there.

Mike: Yeah. I can't remember if they out and out named him, you know, it probably would help if I went back and re-read the issue right now, but I think they, identified him as part of the family 

Jessika: Yeah. That's what I think it was vague. 

Mike: because he has, he has a whole, he has a whole conversation with Orpheus, after, after Eurydice dies, where he kind of consoles him.

I think, right, like I'm not misremembering.

Jessika: I don't remember now that was too many issues ago, 

Mike: Yeah.

Jessika: But he's definitely there. He definitely was there and I, and I think it was just like vague as to his ties. Like he was family, but. 

Mike: Yeah. And then when he's going through the town with Despair during the black plague, he's like very gregarious and like actually much more human seeming than honestly all of the other endless, he's one of those people where he's not going about his duty somberly but he's not like delighting in it either.

He's just kind of like, you know, he's just a dude.

Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. He like has a job and he's doing his job, but he's he still sees what effect that takes on others? 

Mike: Yeah. He feels like a much more human member of the endless than most of his siblings.

Jessika: Yeah, yeah. Say so. So chapter two brings us to Dream and his realm. Where he is once again, moping over a woman who has left him instead of dealing with the grief of his lost love interest, whom he'd only known for a scant couple months. He instead orders Lucien to have her quarters in the castle be dismantled and he's causing constant rain in the Dream realm, as well as in the Dreams of mortals and Delirium shows up and is at first identified as an intruder by the gargoyles outside of Dream's castle. 

Mike: I mean, does it really surprise us? That Dream is just the mopiest moper whoever moped? I know that Neil Gaiman wanted the characters designed to be like a mix of him when he was in his late twenties, cause he was this tall kind of gangly guy, crossed with Robert Smith from The Cure. Which, I mean, like, it feels like something from a cure Song where it's like, my woman left me and so I'm, causing it to rain all over my realm 

Jessika: Oh my gosh, causing it to flood. 

Mike: It's very much that that kind of like new wave emo vibe that I keep getting from Dream. So, you know, spot on.

Jessika: Oh, it totally is though. So Delirium shows up and is again, is at first identified as an intruder by the gargoyles outside of Dream's castle. And Dream invites Delirium inside and offers her a meal and then asks her what he can help with. And it took Delirium some time to get her request out and Dream being the super patient guy he is -just kidding, he's not- was starting to get frustrated, but Delirium finally got out her request or Dream to help her find their lost brother admitting that she had already asked Desire and Despair. Dream become suspicious that Desire had something to do with Delirium, getting that idea, but Desire swears that she had nothing to do with it and urges Dream to just kick her out and refuse to help. We get a flashback from when Delirium was still Delight and her own relationship with Destruction.

When Dream returns, he ends up offering to help Delirium try to locate Destruction through some of Destruction's friends. When told of this, Lucien tries to coax him out of going, but Dream admits that he just needs something to take his mind off his current malady and could use the distraction. Dramatics. He also leaves on a literal, "this is straight forward, What could possibly go wrong?" note. Which why, why set yourself up in that way? 

Anyway. 

Mike: I thought that was great.

Jessika: We begin chapter three with a man named Ernie CapEx, who has had a Dream where he is remembering the smell of wooly mammoths, recalling that he had lived for innumerable years, yet passing a construction zone. He is hit with an entire brick wall slash building itself that accidentally fell from overhead from an active, construction zone he was passing. As CapEx emerges from the rubble. He believed himself to have gotten out of the situation unscathed yet Death, comes, and collect him, pointing to his body, buried beneath the rebel and state that he got, what everybody gets a lifetime back. The waking world Dream has brought the leery into a travel agency in Dublin, looking for an acquaintance of Dreams after much back and forth with the woman working at the front desk. Dream finally sent the message about drinking wine in Babylon before Pharamond -now called Mr. Farrell- finally came to meet them. I love that while they were waiting in the lobby, Delirium was like making frogs, like actual animate frogs. 

Mike: Yeah. And I think that was called out where Ferrell is sitting there and he's like, what are they doing? And the receptionist is like, they're making frogs. like she's making them appear out of thin air. It was.

Jessika: So chaotic. During their meeting, Fairmont agrees to assist Dream after recalling our Dream and help them in the past, by suggesting a different profession, they asked Delirium about the list she had mentioned of their brother's friends, and she went and bought it and included the Lawyer, the Alderman, Etain of the Second Look and the Dancing Woman. we get a glimpse of a Etain who has had a Dream about a poem. She goes to write, but it escapes her. She also narrowly escaped from her apartment as it explodes from ignited gasoline. 

Mike: Yeah. She, has like a moment where she figures out that something is wrong and just needs to get out like as soon as possible.

Jessika: yeah, she had the forethought to grab her purse and then held it in front of her as she broke through the window with the force of her running body, shielding herself with purse. So bad-ass. And she was just in her underwear and a tank top at the time. So lucky for her She had her purse with her and he'd go off into Kmart, some clothes and shoes. We then pan to a man who looked suspiciously like Destruction with no facial hair. And he is trying to paint. His dog, Barnabas, comes to advise him that he is hearing an odd noise from inside a room where they find a round churning pool surrounded by framed portraits. He falls at the family room and states it is an early warning system. 

Dream and Delirium fly on a plane in first-class and then are picked up by a chauffeur in a classic convertible on their way to see apex chapter four begins with an alderman who was nervously perceiving an out of season Northern lights display, knowing that is an negative omen. He does a ritual and changes itself into a bear with a human shadow bites off the human shadow and the shadow takes the man's clothes and his name and identity, and goes back into the world. The bear remains a bear and forgets he was anything else prior. Meanwhile, back in the waking world, Dream and Delirium are being driven around What looks like a suburban neighborhood. And Dream is clearly looking for something or someone they roll up to Bernie Cape axes house, where they're informed by a son that his father is dead. Dream gets really pushy with the chauffeur who insists that she needs to stop to rest for the night before they start driving the 12 to 14 hours, you know, like mortals need sleep and all

Mike: What was the chauffeur's name again? Ruby, right?

Jessika: it was Ruby.

Mike: Yeah. 

Jessika: Yup.

Mike: Yeah. She was rad. I actually really liked that. She was, she was a. Just a cool character, but then she also like actively pushed back on Dream and she's like, I don't give a fuck who you are. I don't care that my boss is calling in a favor. This is not how this works.

Jessika: Exactly. Exactly. It's like, yeah, she definitely had solid boundaries. It was awesome. So it was going to take 12 to 14 hours to get to their next destination, which per Deliriums list is Etain of the Second Look in Ohio. Dream, finally concedes to stop and they go to a motel to Russ for the night. And in the motel, we get background on Ruby, the chauffer, who is a polyglot and all around badass.

As we said, Delirium is letting herself go in order to find another one of the characters on their lists. The scene cuts to an exotic nightclub where one of the dancers is sick prior to going. While looking in the mirror. One of the other dancers who was assisting the sick dancer sees Delirium, who verifies that she is the Dancing Lady that is on the list and tells her that they will see her soon. So Dream goes back to his own realm and speaks with Lucien asking for assistance and finding some of the information they need to find their brother. Dream also recollects a situation and conversation with Destruction and the Corinthian in the 17 hundreds. But at the time Dream didn't realize that Destruction was telling him that he was going to be leaving. 

Mike: Yeah. And the Corinthian, this is the same Corinthian who we saw basically as the celebrity at the serial killer convention back in the Doll's House, right? 

Jessika: Yeah. it was the Doll's House.

Mike: Yeah. But it was before he had really gone off the deep end, but I really dug the character design where he's kind of dressed as a French dandy and he's still rocking sunglasses, like, but he's got, he's got like the giant puffy wig and I thought that was great.

Jessika: yeah, it was a nice little, a nice little. 

Mike: Yeah.

Jessika: Back in the motel Dream returns to his body, to firefighters, trying to get him out. Ruby fell asleep with a lit cigarette and the motel burned down, killing Ruby in the process, or so we're made to believe. 

Mike: Yeah, but at the same time, it's implied that someone or something is taking out all of the leads on Destruction. And they're not sure if the Endless themselves were being targeted as well.

Jessika: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 

Mike: So there's that, there's that ominous tease.

Jessika: Chapter five brings us to the search for the Dancing Lady. As well as some driving lessons for Delirium. So irresponsible. 

Mike: which we should note, they bring Matthew the Raven in to teach Delirium how to drive and Matthew is basically having a panic attack the entire time, trying to teach her the rules of the road because teaching Delirium, the rules of anything is not going to work.

Jessika: Yeah. Well, because she tried like, initially Dream was just like, yeah, go for it. And she's like all over the road, she's like swerving in and out of stuff. She's not on the correct side. And it was just a whole thing. 

Mike: no, it was, it was very good watching Matthew, just panic. And he's like sitting there squawking and flapping his wings, like crazy. It was good. I loved it.

Jessika: Oh, well. And before that, I mean, they had a... the reason the Matthew out called in was because they had a run in with highway patrol and that ended with the man being plagued with feeling like bugs were crawling on him, like forever. Forever. He always was just going to feel like that. 

Mike: Yeah. That was like, and that was basically Delirium. Just does it as a hand wave thing, which you know, I have that as something to talk about later on. But. Yeah. It's the first instance where we see Delirium being just as casually cruel as the rest of her siblings.

Jessika: Yeah. Yup. Without really realizing it, you know, it's almost like it's not even a thought, which is even worse. 

Mike: Yeah.

Jessika: So they get to the exotic dance club and Tiffany -whom Delirium had been using as a conduit- and Ishtar, who we find out as a former goddess of love. So she, at one point tells Tiffany that nobody comes to really see her dance just for TNA, but after Dream and Delirium and Matthew pay a visit with Dream, extracting nothing from who we find out is Destruction's former lover, but also warning her that she might be in danger. Ishtar goes out to the stage to dance and literally goes atomic dancing her true dance. The whole club explodes with a naked, Tiffany barely making it out alive. Desire, shows up and gives Tiffany their coat and talks about how Ishtar was thinking about her desire for Destruction up until her final moment.

Mike: Yeah. Well, something that was interesting about Tiffany is that Ishtar, we've gotten glimpses of her, where Ishtar is like taking care of her. And it's very clear that she has some mental issues going on as well as possibly a drug addiction.

She had a drug addiction, right? Cause at one point she was trying to eat some eggs and stuff that Ishtar made for her and then she wound up puking it up. And then she winds up stumbling out of the club and surviving while Desire gives her the jacket. And then I think that kind of becomes sort of like one of those revelatory moments that we always hear about with born again, Christians, which, you know, we see later on at the very end. Anyway. Moving on.

Jessika: Well, chapter six brings us back to Destruction who is trying his hand at yet another artistic endeavor. And once again, producing lackluster results, he mentions to Barnabas that now is not the time for him to Dream or else he might give up too much. Back with Dream and Delirium Dream has had enough of his sister's bullshit and basically tells her that he's fucking back off to his own realm and she needs to go back to hers. He refuses to help her any further.

Mike: he's really a Dick about it too. There's a very cold delivery to it. And it's very, again, it's very cruel, where he really talks down to her and treats her like a lesser rather than an equal.

Jessika: Yeah. It would be one thing to put up a boundary, which I would absolutely respect if you said, you know what I, for XYZ reason, I really can't help you at this point. Here's what I can do for you. Or I can support you in this way, but it's not even like that. He's just like middle fingers in the air. Like here I go back to my realm, like

Mike: Basically just fire both middle fingers off and go deuces I'm out!

Jessika: Exactly. So Delirium is very upset obviously by this treatment from her brother and his response and sulks off to her own realm. And Dream is very salty when he gets back and tells him while at a stopped dancing, which, sorry, you're no fun, but stop stomping on everybody else's rose garden. He lets Pharamond know about Ruby's demise and then Dream creates a realm for bast to come and talk. And even though he's told everyone that he is no longer looking for his brother, that is the exact question he is going to ask a very flirty Bast.

Mike: right. And this is because back in Season of the Mists, when all the different gods were vying for Hell, the gods of Egypt didn't exactly have a lot to offer, but Bast said, I do know where your brother is.

Jessika: Which I didn't really put two and two together, obviously.

Mike: No, I mean, well, I mean, here's the thing is like back then, like, you know, and that one they hinted at at where I think they had a curtains drawn over Destruction's portrait. This was something that was a very tangentially hinted at if even that much.

But it's kind of interesting to see how Neil Gaiman clearly had an idea of what he wanted to do. Like, even that far back, like we're talking at this point years back. 

Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely the long game for the plot line. 

Mike: which, anything that you read by him, He always has these small seeds that he plants that wind up growing into something bigger. Like if you read American gods, which is, a dense tome of a book, and I guess there's the, the director's cut version that they released a couple of years ago, which is even longer, there's a number of small things that he has his like kind of tangental side stories, and then they wind up building into something much bigger towards the end.

Jessika: Oh, it's always so cool. It's such a good story teller. 

Mike: Yeah. It's just, sometimes you sit there and view people's talent and you're like, that's not fair.

Jessika: No, right? So when Dream appears back in the main part of his castle, Lucien lets him know that there is some trouble in the portrait gallery and when they get there, he discovers that one of the portrait has gone black. Dun dun dun!

Mike: Yeah, like solid black, like that's, that's all there is. 

Jessika: Solid black. Incommunicado. Death comes to see Dream and asks him what he did to Delirium. explained there so far failed by. And Death basically told him he needed to go make up with the sister. 

Mike: Yeah. I mean, like, it's basically like a smack on the back of the head. Like she is like, talking about people tired of other people's bullshit. Death is about done with dreams at this point. I think.

Jessika: Yeah. She's like stopping douche and just make up with her. Good Lord. And so Dream falls into Delirium's chaotic world, which is filled with color and random pictures and words. And you find her crying, having cut off all of her already short multicolored hair. He apologizes to her admitting the he had had ulterior motives for wanting to travel in the waking world.

As there was a woman, he knew that he wanted to try to look up while they were in that world. 

Mike: And it's implied that it's the woman that left him at the beginning who were not actually ever told who that is, right? 

Jessika: No, she gets no name. She just, she's just a plot point. You know? I love that. Yeah. No, we never, we never see her. We never interact with her. She doesn't get a name. So... too bad or not feminist on this show. 

Mike: What, what was the quote that Lisa gave us in the last episode? It was like, uh... 

Jessika: Oh, which one? God, we are, she was talking about nothing. There's nothing better than a woman who was empty. 

That was one of them. 

Mike: Yeah, that was exactly what I was thinking of. Like what better purpose for a woman than to be empty and waiting for a man to fill her hole or something? I was like, ah, god damn it Lisa.

Jessika: Yeah, exactly. Oh, yup. That's just a welcome to the patriarchy. Front row seat: Every woman. Or female identifying person. So dream tells Delirium that he will help her find their brother, but in earnest. chapter seven begins with Destruction trying out yet another fine art. And this time it's the culinary arts. He is somewhere in proximity to an actual town, as he goes and picks up supplies from there and feeds the dog, Barnabas some chocolate, which don't do that, do not do that to your actual dog. 

This is a special, magical dog. 

Mike: I'm still not sure if that was done intentionally to show that Barnabas was like something else or if it was because Neil Gaiman didn't have a dog and didn't know what you are supposed to and supposed to not feed them.

Jessika: I hope it's the former. If it's the former, it's pretty cheeky. Let's just say. 

Mike: But yeah, like I legit tensed up when I read that again. I'm like... 

Jessika: I did too. 

My dog was sitting right next to me and I literally out loud was Like.

no, no, no, no. 

So. Barnabas, is it on some chocolate as he and Destruction discuss Destruction's other artistic endeavors, like sculpting, which by the way, all of these have been done with varying degrees of mediocrity so far. 

Mike: And Barnabas calls it out. Like, he is blunt and it's kinda great.

Jessika: Yup. He's a, no nonsense kind of guy for sure. back with dream of Delirium dream, besides that they must get their older brother involved and notified destiny. They have to find his realm using amaze or labyrinth. And he is of course expecting their arrival. The only advice a destiny can offer dream is something that he had already realized, but doesn't seem to want to be true: That he had to see a certain "oracle." Destiny also told him that the woman he loves has never and will never love him.

And you will see her one more time, but that you will not like the outcome. Delirium sees Dream's distress and comes to his aid. Speaking very coherently. And with her eyes the same color when bustin, she said that she was able to do that if she wanted, but that it hurt to do it for very long and that she felt like she needed to step up for him when he was down. 

Mike: I kind of love that. I thought it was great. I thought it also showed that she's actually a better quote unquote "person" than he is in a lot of ways because she did that kind of like naturally, without anyone telling her she had to.

Jessika: Yeah, it was very, it was instantaneous and it was very selfless. We then get to jump into Destiny's recollection of a story in his book of destruction, calling a family meeting, where he says he's leaving and that he does not want to be found and is no longer going to be associated with the family. Each family member reacts a little bit differently to the news, but Delirium seems to be the most visually upset. So the Oracle in question turns out to be Orpheus. So Dream ends up going there, to Orpheus's island, and in exchange for destruction's location. Dream now owes Orpheus a boon. So they've very easily traversed to destruction's location by boat, where they meet Barnabas and the formal eternal being himself. Destruction meets them with literal open arms and invites them inside with beast that he has made himself, which by the way, they were just sticks about that. They didn't even want It that 

Mike: It looked really good too. Like it looked like a really good meal. 

Jessika: It looked like the one thing he was actually able to do well, 

Mike: Yeah.

Jessika: like he finally figured it out. Hey, I can cook. 

Mike: Well, I mean, speaking of someone who, you know, bakes enthusiastically people generally don't care so much about how your food looks as much as they do about how it tastes.

Jessika: Yeah, exactly. So chapter eight brings us to Destruction's decision. He speaks with Delirium and Dream about the reason he had left family and the fact that he was going to exit existence s Barnabas to stay with Delirium and watch over her. 

Mike: Yeah. And then he reveals during this conversation that the reason that so many people that knew him have been dying was because of certain safeguards I think is how we phrased it. which, I mean, it's fine. I guess it also kind of, it drives home that the endless are not actually people and they don't feel things like guilt or shame, but I don't know.

I was kind of hoping the first time that I read this, that we would get some third agent involved. Someone who is actively trying to hunt down destruction or something like that, but we didn't get it.

Jessika: Nope. 

Mike: It kind of got hand-waved away. 

Jessika: Yeah. Yep. Just all right. Well that was because I didn't want anybody to find me, so I just gotta to make sure nobody finds me regardless of, you know, who gets in my way. And if 

Mike: Yeah. 

Jessika: trying, it's gonna 

Mike: Cool. Cool bro. Cool.

Jessika: Yeah. Pretty rough. Destruction torches the portraits and the gallery.

He shrinks his sword and pool, which was rad by the way. And he puts them in, he puts them on a stick in a polka-dot handkerchief and walks literally into the stars. 

Mike: Yeah. It's that like hobo stick from turn of the century artwork. Whereas the people who were just wandering the rails and stuff and they have a stick and then they have their belongings in, you know, in this little kind of sack tied to the end.

Jessika: Yeah. You could tell, he was like, oh, this is what this is supposed to look like. You could tell it was like an affectation, which was kind of adorable. He's been trying this whole time to be someone else, You know, and, and even when he left, he was trying to be someone else. So it's like, man, I hope you find yourself out there. 

Mike: Well, yeah, it... he's been trying to be human and this is another affectation that he's put on. To seem human.

Jessika: Dream then tells Delirium that he has to go see his son. Oh. And also that dream needed to kill Orpheus. 

Mike: That was such a great cliffhanger moment.

Jessika: I know. I actually, I literally gasped. It's like, whoa. We begin chapter nine back to Orpheus's home island where after a bit of back and forth re dream allows Delirium to accompany him, to see his son. She says her chaotic hello, and then Death double-checks with Orpheus that this is what I wanted. They have a very meaningful conversation about their relationship and life and change.

And then Dream kills  Orpheus. Dream meets up with Delirium outside where Despair has entered the scene. She shows regret and not going with delirium to find and ultimately see destruction for one final time. Delirium pieces out with Barnabas and Despair meets up with Desire who should be happy as it had accomplished what it wanted to have happen... to have Dream spill the blood of one of the family, but she is somehow still lacking proper fulfillment from the situation. Dream returns to his own realm and is unusually empathetic to everyone around them, wanting to know how people are and speaking with soft vendor, standing, leaving every person he interacts with in a state of poodle. He visits Adros who was one of the Island's caretakers and asks him to bury Orpheus in an unmarked grave. He also starts making plans to let people know that they are no longer in danger and generally thinking about the well-being of others.

And that is that they're no longer in danger of being harmed by Destruction's safeguards.

Dream washes his hands of the blood of his son, literally. And he remembers a flashback advice given after the Death of Eurydice. Throughout this volume, different characters have told dream in different ways that he is changing, evolving as a person, but he fought this notion up until the end of this chapter, where he seems to have made peace with his decision and accepting the fact that maybe has the capacity for change after all. So, Mike, what did you think about this volume? And do you have a favorite story or event?

Mike: Yeah. I'm of two minds on this. Like the plot itself feels like this very necessary one. And it's one that moves the story of Dream and his siblings forward in a pretty meaningful way. But I also found myself continuing to realize that the Endless are these very alien beings who just happened to look human.

And oftentimes they're not very kind to each other or to anyone else. And I don't really think I like most of them to be honest. I keep thinking about that moment in the club where Desire basically forces two women to fall in love and then reveals it's going to lead to obsession and stalking and I think maybe a murder. And there's just this casual cruelty that they generally seem to possess, like even Delirium. Like we talked about how she gets irritated with the highway patrolman. And then was like, you're going to think that you have bugs crawling onto your skin for the rest of your life.

We see that at the end of this volume, like how it's played out. And it's really rough. He's like in a sanitarium. And, that said I will say, I think Delirium is the most human of the endless, except maybe Death, because she feels all the same things that we do. And it's somehow driven her to her current state.

Like we never actually see, I don't think what caused her to go from Delight to Delirium. 

Jessika: Oh, interesting. Okay. 

Mike: I think it's one of those things that, that game and kind of teases out, but then just leaves us to, let us wonder about afterwards. 

Jessika: Well, damn

Mike: Yeah. And that said, I think my favorite thing about this volume was honestly, was Barnabas. Like I really enjoyed how he had that brutal honesty and was really funny. Whenever destruction would ask him to critique whatever piece of art he just attempted and then he agrees to go with delirium as I don't quite know how to describe this new role for him, I guess like a sanity check dog, as opposed to a seeing eye dog.

Jessika: Yeah. Like maybe an emotional support dog. 

Mike: Yeah. Like he, he's a cosmic emotional support dog, I guess.  

Jessika: Yeah. You gotta ramp it up and you've got like cosmic powers. You have to, like, there has to be a safeguard for that kind of a, it takes a special service dog. 

Mike: Yeah. But I felt like he was the best character throughout the whole story. He's funny. And he's weird. And he's also the companion that we all want our dogs to be. I'm not going to lie. Like I'm probably projecting onto him, but I've recently left a job that was incredibly stressful and was actually causing me to start having anxiety attacks.

And my dog, Iggy, would clue into when I was freaking out and he would just hop into my lap and calm me down. don't think we deserve dogs and Barnabas is kind of the manifestation of why that's the case. 

Jessika: Yeah. 

Mike: And on that note, I know that Jill Thompson, who was the main artists for this volume based Barnabas on a real life dog who belonged to a neighbor who she said was quote, "unkind to the animal." And so she decided to like memorialize them in a comic, which kind of adds that extra emotional punch to it. 

Jessika: yeah, which I'm sorry. Are we obsessed with Jill Thompson answer? Yes, we are. 

Mike: A hundred percent.

Jessika: Jill hit us up. 

Mike: What about you? Was there anything that really stuck out to you?

Jessika: I was really struck with the part where delirium is at dinner and asks. "Have you got any little milk chocolate people, about three inches, high men and women. I'd like some of them filled with raspberries and cream." She makes them kiss throughout the scene. And after a dream and delirium have left, there is one frame of the last two chocolate people, a man and a woman, which is described as such: "touched by her fingers, the two surviving chocolate people populate desperately losing themselves in a melting frenzy of lust spending. The last of their brief borrowed lives in a spasm of raspberry cream and fear." Something about the fact that delirium was both animating and then eating little candy people is just so intense and horrifying. 

Mike: Yup.

Jessika: And for how much of a throwaway frame it was, it really said a lot about Delirium in just that one situation, you know, even bringing it back to what you had mentioned, just that casual, like she's created a life and she doesn't even care what happens to it? She's just going to destroy it. She'll just leave it to just melt. It doesn't matter to her. 

Mike: Yeah. And I mean, that's, I think part of the thing with the Endless is that they're older than gods and galaxies. At some point, when you were these beings that kind of surpass already cosmic things, I don't know, maybe. you just have that perspective where you're like, Hm, you're less than an ant and it's not because I don't like you... It's just, Hmm.

Jessika: Yeah, totally. Well. We're bringing it back to the art. Do you have a favorite panel or illustration that caught your eye?

Mike: Yeah. The scene where destruction is talking with dream and delirium under that starry sky, like right before he pieces out. It's one of those things where every panel feels like this legit work of art. And in the moment when he actually pieces out, it just feels simultaneously strange and surreal and totally ordinary.

And I loved it. It's now one of the sequences that I think about when I think about Sandman, like I've got a couple of moments from, different stories that I've talked about in the past. Like in Men of Good Fortune and there's that three panel sequence with Hob Gadling and his face.

And then, this is another one. it felt like there were a bunch of different emotions wrapped up in the entire scene. And I really liked how I just, it left me feeling satisfied at the end, which, you know, you want good art to do. And then it's not exactly a favorite art moment.

But one detail that I really liked was how after Orpheus dies, which by the way, the moment that he dies is kind of cool because we don't actually see what dream did, but we see the symbol of death. And then, Orpheus is dead. But one detail that I've really liked was how after Orpheus dies and dream has blood dripping from his hands, there's a trail of red flowers, blooming where the blood hits the ground.

Jessika: Yeah. That's really sweet. It was those same red flowers that he had that Orpheus had been sending up to Johanna, Constantine's memorial

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. so I'm curious, like what about you? What was your favorite art moment?

Jessika: Well, I actually have a tie, so you're just gonna have to hear both. 

Mike: that's kind of funny because normally I'm the one where I'm like, I have two, maybe three.

Jessika: I couldn't decide this time, usually very decisive, but you know. Sandman's got me like... so in chapter five they visit the exotic dance club and the illustration was super neat. They didn't have any heavy outlines. It was lit differently, you know, the, the drawing style and it just had like shapes, comprising most of the forms, which was neat.

And it was a good way to show the distorting light that neon and other lights. You know, give off the appearance. And it also gives the vibe for the place they were in. The customers are also not looking at details and the reader won't get any, you know, the stage lights were also different from the backstage lighting, but the line work was the same, which was also an interesting choice.

It made it feel like the club was just a world of its own, with its own visual rules. 

Mike: Yeah. And the moment where Ishtar takes the stage and she kind of goes nuclear, the art style is very distinct and the way that she's drawn compared to everything else, it's like, she's no longer a concrete form. It's kind of like, she is the idea of a woman in the midst of a very real world, which I thought was a really cool way to do it.

Jessika: Yeah. I think so too. Yeah, I think so. 

Mike: Yeah. 

Jessika: And my other favorite art moment is when Dream goes into Delirium's round 

Mike: Mm. 

Jessika: it's so colorful and it's a chaotic and it's hard to know where to look, to take everything in. And I found myself kind of looking at the pages far away and then up close because the little details come out when you're close, but the distance lets you see the whole big chaotic picture.

So it was really neat to portray like a really neat way to portray that vibe. 

Mike: Yeah. 

Jessika: so Mike, do you have any final thoughts about this volume before we move on? 

Mike: Yeah, I was kind of entertained at how dream threw a giant tantrum because his latest girlfriend bounced and it sort of just drove home how he's still very much a mediocre white guy in his thirties. But, but I also, I will say I did appreciate how this volume brought closure to Orpheus's story and, and how we saw some genuine emotion and regrets from Morpheus at the end of it.

There's that moment where after he's having that, recollection of telling Orpheus to live, you can see him in his, I guess his throne or his personal chair or whatever it was. And he looks really sorrowful and that's, I think, the first time that we've seen. Express any true emotion other than anger?

Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. 

Mike: No.

Jessika: Well, let's move along to volume eight and this is titled Worlds End. And was originally published in single magazine farm as the Sandman issues, 51 through 56 in 1993, written as always by our boy, Neil Gaiman illustrated by Brian Talbot, Alex Stevens, John Watkiss, Michael Zuli, Michael Alfred, Shaya Anson Pensa and Gary Amarro. This volume is another anthology. The first story is titled the tale of two cities, and it begins with a car accident where a man named Brant Tucker was behind the wheel with the car's owner, Charlene Mooney in the passenger seat. A large black-horned animal, bigger than a car was in the middle of the road, causing him to veer off and hit a tree Brant bulls Charlene from the wreckage and carries her to find help, winding up at a place called the World's End Inn. Where there are many very curious characters, similarly waiting out the storm, but this isn't a snowstorm like brand had initially thought it is a reality storm, a centaur who is touted to be a prolific healer, tends to Charlene and after drinking a very comforting honey flavored liquid Brant falls into a short coma of 15 hours and awakens to find everyone around a table, trading stories. One of the men at the table, Mr. Geharris goes on to tell a story about a man who enjoyed wandering around the city until the night that he fell or more accurately rode a train into the dreams of his city.

After catching a glimpse of a silver gleaming path during his daily lunchtime walk, the man spaces out at work and leaves late missing his usual train. The train he catches is not the right one at all, as Dream as the only other passenger. And it doesn't make the usual stops instead, quickly zipping to an unknown destination when he arrives, all of the landmarks are familiar, but not quite recognizable.

He comes upon another older man who tells him his theory that this is the dream of a city. He finds his way out through a familiar doorway where he was later able to read out the tail to Mr. Harris stating that he's not afraid of the dreams of the cities. He's more worried about what might happen if they wake up and decide to take over. 

Mike: Yeah. And that last bit, gives, everything kind of this weird Lovecraftian kind of vibe where it's painting cities to kind of seem like they are these eldritch beings that we just happened to be living in. And I kind of dug that

Jessika: Yeah. Well, I don't know. I am of the opinion that a city is a living, breathing organism in a way. I mean, there are definite veins and arteries of traffic and, there's different inner workings that make the whole thing rent. I don't know. It just, it feels alive. 

Mike: what was that like the mortal engine series, like Peter Jackson produced a movie. That they based on the books about how after effectively, like a giant world war cities become these mobile entities and they wind up like roaming the world and harvesting smaller towns and villages for resources.

Jessika: Oh, I Like, that. 

Mike: it's a cool idea. It's one where I, I haven't read the book. I've only, I've only seen the trailers, but it looked cool. I don't know. I think it did not actually get that great a review. So I'm waiting for it to come to Netflix before I watch it

Jessika: yeah. Fair. So moving on to the second story, which is titled Cluracan's Tale, and it's told by its namesake who is similarly waiting out the store. And this is the very same thorough can who was the brother to Nuala the quote unquote gift given to dream by the Fey after all the underworld drama? 

Mike: right in season of the miss.

Jessika: Yeah, exactly. His story takes place in the land of Fae where Cluracan is being told by her majesty the queen that he must act as an ambassador on her behalf and intervene in a dealing in Australia of the Plains. Evidently he had been planning to visit Nuala, but would have to set that aside to go on a mission for the queen. She gives him some instructional scrolls, which he was like, yeah, cool. I'll read those later and sets on his way. He's guided to the palace where he meets the psychopomp, who is basically trying to gain power of all the realms tax people and make himself wealthy and powerful. don't know if that sounds familiar. 

Mike: Neil Gaiman, continuing to be oddly prescient.

Jessika: Man. Cluracan bursts out an uncontrollable prediction, which lands him in jail with iron cuffs and chains. He falls into the dream realm where he sees Nuala. And when he awakes Dream is there and undoes his chains and lets him out as a favor to Nuala. Once out Cluracan spreads rumors throughout the town about the psychopomp causing the town to riot the psychopomp and his adviser.

Hide out in the crypt where he is mocking. The former leaders Cluracan comes to face the psychopomp, but before he's able to do. One of the dead bodies comes back the life and fucks up the oily little man by sending them both out of a stained glass window from way high up. Cluracan was on his way back to give his queen the news when he was caught in the storm and absolutely admits to embellishing his story.

Mike: Which I mean, that's kind of in keeping with Cluracan's character. He's very much the grandiose storyteller.

Jessika: Yeah, exactly. So the next story is called Hob's Leviathan and is told by a young person who goes only by the name, Jim, while Brant and Charlene have come from June, 1993, Jim and the rest of the ship's crew came from September, 1914. 

Mike: I actually really liked that detail because it shows the fluid nature of time throughout all of these stories that we're reading.

Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. Not only time, but other realms, like, you know, we had reality budding up against the Fey realm and budding up against wherever the hell centaurs come from and all that good stuff, Jim had worked on several other ships and had finally started working on the Sea Witch. The captain reluctantly took on a passenger who we find out to be Hob Gadling during their merchant voyage and also find a stowaway. The stowaway is named Gunga Din, who told a very sexist story about how all women cheat and along the way they encounter a sea serpent. When Jim asks Bob, why nobody is talking about the sea serpent, Hob states that some things just go unsaid and who would believe that story anyway, and then reveals that he knows that Jim is actually a girl in the end. Jim says that there is only so much more time that this disguise will work, but for now they can still be called Jim.

Mike: Yeah. And Gunga Din I think that's a Rudyard Kipling poem from like the late 1900s...

Jessika: Oh, hence the sexism 

Mike: yeah. I mean, I don't remember the details about that. I think we read that in junior year English for high school. but Rudyard Kipling stuff it has that, unmistakable whiff of colonialism.

Jessika: Yeah. Colonialism is a thing.

Mike: Yeah.

Jessika: Golden Boy is the title of our next story and starts with Brant being a very sleepy guy. He wakens to a sandwich and miraculously hot coffee that had been left for him starts looking around the inn. He runs into another guest who states he is a seeker and follower quote, unquote, and tells the story of the one he follows.

In another reality, we follow the growth of a boy named Prez Rickard who becomes the 19-year-old president of the United States with a pension for fixing broken timepieces. Now, Mike, off recording, we've talked about Prez before, I know this is a passion of yours. Would you like to give us some background on the character. 

Mike: Oh man. Pres. Okay. yeah, we haven't actually talked about them on this show before, and we probably should at some point, but I, but the funny thing is we did talk about him when we were spinning up the podcast that eventually morphed into Ten Cent Takes. So there's like a last episode out there with some of this info. Prez was this comic that DC did back in the early 1970s. It was following the passage of the 26th amendment, which lowered the voting age. And basically the idea was what would happen if a followup amendment allowed teenagers to get elected to office. And the core concept was there's a kid named Prez who is named so because his mom wants him to be president one day, he becomes this local hero after getting all the clocks in his town to run on time and winds up, getting elected president after kind of thwarting, a convoluted scheme by the shady political fixer named boss smiley and Boss Smiley is a weird guy.

Like I think, I think if I remember him, he's like a human person, but then he's got like a smiley face button for a face. 

Jessika: Yeah. It's weird. 

Mike: the problem is, is it's been a while since I read the original issues and I may be mixing it up with what's in here. And then also the followup reboot they did back in 2015, which we'll talk about that in a minute. But the seventies comic only lasted for four issues and it had some really wild stories.

Like one of my favorites is he fights a legless vampire on a skateboard and he goes toe to toe with this distant descendant of George Washington, who was leading an extremist militia group. He survives it and assassination attempt on him after he comes out as pro gun control.

And I need to show you that comic cover with the vampire, because he's got like, he's got a werewolf as an assistant, just like a torso and then... 

Jessika: Sounds a lot like terror. Shout out to DG Chichester. 

Mike: Oh man. All right. Take a look at this.

Jessika: No, it's on a wheelie cart. 

Mike: Uh, yeah.

Jessika: I was not. Oh no, there, there, are problems. 

Mike: Yeah.

Jessika: Oh no. Okay. Let me just paint a picture for everyone. So we have the DC logo in the corner. It says in the middle of the cover Vampire in the wWite House! Prez: First Teen President 20 cents number for March. It's got the comics code authority, of course, which we love.

So the door is being opened by what looks like, uh, some militia men, as well as a native American person. Who's very little stereotypically drawn,

Mike: I believe that's character name is Eagle free. 

Jessika: Oh no, I'm 

Mike: Hold on. 

Jessika: not loving it. 

Mike: Yeah, I mean, it was, it was the early 1970s. They, uh, they weren't very politically correct. 

Jessika: can't see my head shaking. It's shaking. I don't love it.

Mike: It looks like the Native American mascot that you see when a team is named the Indians.

Jessika: Yes, exactly. It's a little rough. you saying "We're too late, that creature's found the president!" and just as... he says Prez who, by the way, is wearing a red sweater, which has the presidential logo with Prez USA around it. So that's already funny. He seems to be in the oval office. Papers are flying everywhere and there's half a vampire on a rolly cart who by the looks of it has flown in and is now trying to bite his neck or strangle him or bite his shoulder and strangle him is what it looks like.

Not entirely sure what he's going to do here. So Yeah.

Mike: And that's like the final issue of Prez as well, I believe.

Jessika: It would escalate into vampirism and be like, oh, where do we go from here? 

Pres and a vampire. 

Mike: Yeah. pres everything that I love about comics and the press books are why I collect where you just find these weird, strange, silly moments, and then you can bust it out to show to people. And they just want to know all about it. And then you guys get to talk about it for awhile.

Jessika: it's the concept itself is so laughable that even if it were an option to like elect an 18 year old, like most of us would be like, I remember what I was 18. This sounds like an awful idea. This sounds like a terrible idea. 

Mike: I remember what I was like when I was 30. Good Lord. I wouldn't want me when I was 30 as president.

Jessika: That's what I'm saying? Yeah. I'm 35. I'm oh, Hey. I'm just now of presidential age. So nobody vote for me. Nobody vote for me. I don't want that job, but I thought my job was stressful. 

Mike: Yeah.

Jessika: I have like seven employees. Like I don't, I don't want to have like the country as my, as my dealings with that's a lot. 

Mike: Yeah. But the other thing is that in 2015, DC did a mini series revival slash reboot of Prez. Where instead of Prez Rickard... Rickard still shows up and he's kind of like this wildly congressmen, and he's a lot of fun, the idea it's updated for the modern age, where basically you can vote via Twitter.

And...

Jessika: Oh, no. 

Mike: and this girl who goes viral because of like a humiliating video at our fast food job, winds up getting elected president. And it's very funny and very smart. And I can't remember who wrote it, but Ben Caldwell did the art who has this wonderful style. That's kind of a mix of cartoony and then more traditional.

And it it's really good. And it's also very affordable. You can find it very easily for not much money. In fact it might be on Hoopla. 

Jessika: Ooh, we love Hoopla. 

Mike: Yeah, let's see if it's on Hoopla.

Jessika: Hey everyone. I would like to take this time to remind everyone to support your local library, to support your local comic book. You're a local small bookstore, small artists. 

Mike: We are recording this on small business Saturday.

Jessika: We are 

Mike: So 

Jessika: that's right. 

Mike: press volume, one from 2015, by Mark Russell and Ben Caldwell and Mark Morales is available on Hoopla. Highly recommend it. It's a great read.

Jessika: Yes. Well, thank you. So back within, the story, so that was a nice background on Prez, but back to what happened within this anthology story. So press has many trials where he's tempted by that character Boss Smiley that you had mentioned, but he declined each time wanting to work for his people instead of selling out so that he could receive the rewards offered by the creepy smiling guy.

Even after his fiancé is killed and he's injured by a shooter, he still does not give into temptation after finishing his second term of office and denying want change laws so he could continue through a third, Prez hit the road and beyond some Elvis level sightings, he disappeared into the sunset. When Prez died, despite the lack of news on the subject, collectively the nation knew the tragedy that had befallen them. When Death came to retrieve Prez, he was led to gold gates in the clouds and was met by Boss Smiley. Who explains that there are other Americas, other realities that are unknown to most when Prez explains that he wants to leave to the afterlife of broken watches he was told about. Boss smiley says he will not let him leave that he has to stay with the boss. Dream shows up and puts the kibosh on Boss Smiley's plan, taking Prez out of the situation and literally disappearing in front of the boss's angry visage. Dream explains that Death was the one to call attention to this plight and that he had her the thank for his rescue. Before dream sends him off to the real afterlife, Prez gives dream a pocket watch.

And the narrator mentioned that he could be out there spreading his good word or waiting to hop back into reality, but we may never know. 

Mike: Yeah. And I really liked that one because it was, the Neil Gaiman spin on a classic obscure character. But I liked the idea of. this person who was in the DC universe, like, you know, a real in quotes character becoming an urban legend. And by that becoming a dream of a nation.

And I liked the idea of Morpheus stepping in and being like, nah, he's, he's mine.

Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. exactly. So our next story is called Cerements and begins of course, back at the World's End In. And the storyteller for this tale is named Petrefax an apprentice and Stacy has a true story about another member of the party he has with his master BlackRock. Both are from necropolis. We begin in a glass where clap Roth is teaching ways to get rid of a body and quizzes at daydreaming Petrefax Petrefax is assigned by black broth to go see an air burial that was scheduled. The party members of this gathering tell their own stories of the lore of death and the ceremony surrounding it.

There was a tale about a prior city that was not showing enough respect for it that ended up being destroyed and reestablished and another that followed the search for hidden place in the city that holds a book that knows many things about death and the departed Brent becomes convinced that the end is actually just them in death, but one of the other people at the end states that they can explain the Inn and magic. 

Mike: yeah, and I don't think we've seen Necropolis before now, but I know it shows up later on in the series.

Jessika: this is the first time that I had. The final story is called world's end, which shows the storm breaking and the different patrons departing to their respective homes and realms. Well sort of Charlene decided that she didn't really care for her reality anyway, and wants to stay on working at the Inn. Although Brant absolutely tries to talk her into going back with him in vain. Petrefax decided that he hadn't seen enough realms and decides to leave and go venturing with Chiron the centaur. When Brant gets back, the car is in one piece without a scratch on it. And it is registered in his name. All signs of Charlene's existence have been erased from the reality in which he lives with Brant being the only person on earth to remember Charlene. 

Mike: Yeah. And then it's revealed that he was telling the story to a bartender. And that basically when he got to their final destination, he called his work and said, I'm not coming back. Like everything has changed. And then he stays out there and, yeah, it was just, it was kinda, it was one of those ones that ended in a way that was kinda weirdly bittersweet it felt a little sad, even though most everybody got what they wanted.

Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Well, Mike, was there a scene or event in this volume that stood out to you? 

Mike: I mean, there's a lot, actually, this is one of the volumes that I really do. Like, but the one that I always really find myself going back to is the story about Prez, which, you know, I mean, based on our prior conversation, probably shouldn't surprise anyone. I really loved how Gaiman created something that was very true to the character, but also was a totally different spin at the same time.

And it really felt fun and thoughtful. And I enjoyed how biblical it felt in a lot of ways with Prez being this kind of Christ-like figure. And then Boss Smiley being the adversary. Like they even have the moment where Boss Smiley is trying to tempt him on top of a mountain. Yeah, like I just, I think that is one of my favorite of the Sandman short stories.

Jessika: Yeah. That doesn't surprise me about you. 

Absolutely. 

Mike: What about you?

Jessika: No, I really liked the part where Charlene went on a rampage about how there weren't any women in their stories except to further the plot line or be decoration. 

Mike: Yeah. 

Jessika: It was like, yes, girl. 

Mike: I mean, even with the one about Prez it's like he has a fiancé who gets shot and that's about it. 

Jessika: Yep, totally fridged. 

Mike: Yup.

Jessika: Yeah.

And it also, I also appreciated Gaiman for actually taking the time to point this out in the narratives. 

Mike: Yeah.

Jessika: I mean, it would have been nice if there actually had been women in the narratives instead of him just pointing it out. You know, something to think about.

Mike: Yeah.

Jessika: But that is one of the things that I like about this series in general, while there are some really, really violent things that do happen to women.

There are female characters who take charge and step up and act as main characters and have more of a presence. Is it the whole series? No, but I do feel that this is at least trying to be somewhat inclusive. You know, in the way cis male author. And do so. What was your favorite art moment in this.

Mike: I think it was the funeral procession that we see towards the end, it's shown across several two page spreads and it's really striking and knowing what I know, it's really interesting with all the foreshadowing that the wake provides us with, but the way that it's presented, we don't know what's going on yet.

Like if it's, if we were first-time readers and I really enjoyed that, I enjoy the foreshadowing.

Jessika: Oh, so I'll have to wait and see, I guess. 

Mike: Yeah. it's funny. I always think that I know what you're going to say for a favorite moment or a favorite art sequence and... I think we've had one actual like Venn diagram moment and that's about it. So I'm curious to hear what yours is.

Jessika: Yeah, that is really nice that we do always have something a little bit different that we've of gravitated towards. 

Mike: Yeah.

Jessika: Well, I really thought the dream sequence in a Tale of Two Cities was interesting. I love how the frames real long gated on that white background instead of what we have as like mostly a black background for this graphic novel. And none of the objects are scenery were lined out. I'm sure you're getting a, any, any kind of style that's different. I really gravitate towards, none of the objects or scenery were like lined out. It was all more basic shapes of figures in big places and less detailed, but it really upped the dreaminess factor.

And it made me feel the same kind of hazy confusion that the character was describing. Things were. You couldn't possibly recognize that place because it's so vague, but it looked very familiar because we've all seen a place that looks kind of like that. And I think that was done very well. If you've ever been to a city, you, that could have been any city that you've been to. 

Mike: Right. 

Jessika: And it was just like a cool combination of like the story in the illustration vibe. 

Mike: Yeah. 

Jessika: Yeah. Well, would you like to move on to brain wrinkles?

Mike: yeah. I guess I can be tempted.

Jessika: Okay. Well that's good. Cause we're going to mosey anyway. So brain wrinkles are that one thing, comics or comics adjacent that just cannot get out of our heads since the last time we talked. Mike, what is it for you? 

Mike: Oh, it's actually. It's tied to our last episode of the book club, where we talked about the problematic trans representation in that book of a game of you. And, you know, I spent a long time being mad about how the promotional copy on the back of the book or in the descriptive page of Hoopla in this case, was making it seem like Wanda was a quote drag queen, which is why I thought that Wanda was actually Hal from The Doll's House.

And I wound up kind of like, irately tweeting about it and it got picked up and, and it turns out it apparently got in front of some of the right eyes, because it sounds like based on what I've heard through the grapevine, that DC comics is actually going to be adjusting that. And it turns out that the promo text for the 30th anniversary book doesn't actually have that copy, but on the pages of Amazon for ComiXology and on Hoopla for those books, the promo text on those pages themselves shows the wrong promo text and like Neil Gaiman actually chimed in on the Twitter thread.

And seemed a little salty, which I get. But, but yeah, so it hasn't changed yet, but, it sounds like it's going to, and that was actually a really big moment. It felt like one of those things where I was just like, you know, we are not a big podcast, but we managed to make things a little bit better. And, and that was a really validating feeling.

Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. It was super neat to have something that we had kind of noticed and discussed and found a flaw in and you know, something that was, maybe it was unintentional, but it was, it's damaging, it's still damaging regardless. And so to be able to help fix that and help me be, get rid of some fusion or transphobia surrounding the way that these things are worded, you know, regardless of the intention, you know, moving forward the right way. 

Mike: Yeah. And I mean, I've mentioned this numerous times, like I'm a cis white guy. life is on easy mode for me, comparatively, but actually when I was a referee with roller Derby, I got to know a number of people that were trans it gave me an awareness of just how fucking hard those people have it.

And so, you know, if anything that I do makes things better for them, I can die happy.

Jessika: Yeah, exactly. So I feel about two. 

Mike: Yeah. Um, what about you?

Jessika: Well, this is going to loop into something I said earlier, just a PSA to support artists. If you're able to, support the people that make the things that you enjoy, whether That's music or visual art or books or comics, whatever you consume, please remember to support the people that are making those things for us.

The pandemic has hit us all really hard, especially the people who use social gatherings or events to sell their wares. Like here locally. I used to go to the Dickens fair every year. And in fact, the last couple of years prior to the pandemic, I went almost, if not every weekend, they were open and that's like an hour plus drive for me to get there.

So, I mean, that's some commitment.

I love that place. 

Mike: That's at the Cow Palace, right? 

Jessika: It is. Yeah.

And they are doing an event this year for me, again, I'm over an hour away. It's a drive-thru event. And I know that I will not be able to go drive an hour, sit through however long the line is going to be, and then sit through a drive through and then driving home.

I don't have that kind of car stamina, the way I was able to go to Dickinson because I would literally get there. I would stay all day. I made it worth my time. 

Mike: you know, it's funny cause I never did Dickens really, but I worked at the Ren Faire for a number of years and the original Renaissance Faire was started by the same people as Dickens. 

I still have some of the pewter mugs and stuff that I got from there.

And, there's some really talented artists selling their stuff at those places. And I can't even imagine how rough the pandemic has been for them.

Jessika: Yeah. I use my steampunk top hat that I got from Dickens. I use that as. My tip hat or my trivia that I do. So I actually use it a couple times a week. Yeah, but you know, that being said, I know that it's, it's difficult right now, but if you do have the ability, go online, a lot of folks have Patreon accounts that let you support artists monthly.

A lot of folks have, you know, Etsy shops, other things like that, any way support, just support art in whatever form you consume it in. We need to help artists so they can continue to create beauty in the world.

Mike: Yeah, especially right now during the holidays, because this episode is going to drop a couple of weeks before Christmas. 

Jessika: Depression is a thing we all need escapes. Thank you. 

Mike: Man the holidays are rough anyway.  

Jessika: Yeah.

Yeah, mine's been pretty cool this year. Luckily, so I,

hope the same for you. 

Mike: mine's going to be busy because. 

Jessika: Hm. Hm. 

Mike: I mean, we didn't, we didn't buy anything black Friday from Amazon, but we bought a house, so... 

Jessika: Which I mean, bwam bwam bwam. Congratulations. 

Mike: yeah. Thank you. But as a result, it's a, the next month is going to be extremely chaotic. And I think we're moving in like a day or two before Christmas. it's going to be busy, new job, new house.

Jessika: Ooh, that's exciting. Gets you a tiny tree. Can you just plunk it on the table of the new place? Christmas. 

Mike: Yeah. I'm trying to like, what are we covering next time? I can't remember are we talking about holidays in comics, 

Jessika: I don't know, Mike, what are we covering? 

Mike: and Comics. That's what 

we're covering. 

Jessika: Yeah, 

Mike: I'm making the call.

Jessika: I 

guess we're covering holidays in comics. 

Yeah. That's what Mike says. Well, what's happening. 

His episode is the next step. Oh, 

Mike: I better start writing that, I guess.

Jessika: wait. Aren't we supposed to record that in like two days?

Mike: Listen, I don't tell you how to live your life.

Jessika: I say that like, I've read the rest of the Sandman series, 

Mike: Yeah. 

Jessika: which I haven't. But I midway through nine, which is a chunky beast, by the way. 

Mike: Yeah. A lot of the sand man, it's, it's interesting how, how the length of the stories varies, you know, between for better or worse. I think, some of the stories I'm like, I don't know, like, I feel like volume seven was overly long, but at the same time, I don't know what I would have cut from it.

It all felt pretty crucial, but I was like, I. I don't know, I found myself like kind of just getting fatigued, reading through it. 

Jessika: Yeah, sure. That's how Nine's feeling so, far, we'll get there though. 

Mike: So in two weeks we'll be back and I will be leading the discussion on holiday comics 

Jessika: Awesome. 

Mike: it'll probably go in directions that we weren't expecting as they always do.

Jessika: Well, I guess until then, we'll see it in the stacks. 

Mike: Thanks for listening to Tencent takes accessibility is important to us. So text transcriptions of each of our published episodes can be found on our web.

Jessika: This episode was hosted by Jessika Frazier and Mike Thompson written by Jessika Frazier and edited by Mike Thompson. Our intro theme was written and performed by Jared Emerson Johnson of Bay Area Sound, our credits and transition music is Pursuit of Life by Evan McDonald and was purchased with a standard license from premium beat.

Our banner graphics were designed by Sarah Frank, who goes by Lookmomdraws on Instagram. 

Mike: If you'd like to get in touch with us, ask us questions or tell us about how we got something wrong. Please head over to ten cent takes.com or shoot an email to Tencent takes at gmail.com. You can also find us on Twitter. The official podcast is Tencenttakes all one word. Jessika is Jessikawitha, and Jessika is spelled with a K and Mike has van Sao, V a N S a U

Jessika: If you'd like to support us, be sure to download, rate and review wherever you listen 

Mike: Stay safe out there.

Jessika: and support your local comic shop.